Tuesday, November 08, 2005

In Defense of France

Too many conservative venues have inadvertently exonerated the Islamic attacks in France by blaming the victim first. For years, conservatives have understood that savage acts are not the fault of society but of the vicious individuals who commit them. Today, we read about France’s dysfunctional economy, its policy of appeasement, and its obstructionist foreign policy. These are all valid criticisms but they shouldn’t be elevated above the fact that Islamic hostility to the West is independent of our action or inaction. I’ve talked about the root cause in the past.

France’s record of appeasement doesn’t mean “they brought it upon themselves” any more than our record of appeasement means we brought 9/11 upon ourselves. It’s appropriate to note the prudent measures that are required to fight the enemy but it should never replace the moral condemnation and intellectual identification of that which drives the enemy.

In France, the left has dominated intellectual life and determined French politics not unlike it would here if there were a slight change in numbers. It wouldn’t have taken that many people for Kerry to have been elected. We may be critical of the French regime but in this struggle, we must be on the side of France—even if they are not yet ready to fight. Indeed, as I’ve pointed out, it is illegal to even discuss the problem.

The irrational hatred that the French intellectuals spew in our direction is obvious good reason to be critical of their culture and policies. But now is not the time. In this battle we should want France to win. Let’s hope she wakes up sooner rather than later.

Update: Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer, of course.
Update2: Grant Jones, AOW, Pastorius, Sixth Column, Robert Bidinotto, all have extensive comments and links. As do many others in the list of links at the right. What the mainstream media fails to do, the Internet has done tenfold. Great job everyone!

47 Comments:

Blogger gandalf said...

Looking at the situation in Europe especially in France, I feel that this part of the great mans speech entitled "Be Ye Men of Valour" is highly appropriate



BE YE MEN OF VALOUR

Winston Churchill May 1940

Our task is not only to win the battle - but to win the war. After this battle in France abates its force, there will come the battle for our Island -- for all that Britain is, and all the Britain means. That will be the struggle. In that supreme emergency we shall not hesitate to take every step, even the most drastic, to call forth from our people the last ounce and the last inch of effort of which they are capable. The interests of property, the hours of labor, are nothing compared with the struggle of life and honor, for right and freedom, to which we have vowed ourselves.

11/8/05, 2:05 PM  
Blogger LA Sunset said...

I am pulling for her. I am not so arrogant that I cannot see that a stable Europe is most certainly in the best interests of America, as well as the whole world. I lived in Europe, I loved it. I deeply wish they would come around and join the effort to combat this movement, now. Before it is too late.

11/8/05, 2:50 PM  
Blogger Benjamin said...

Thanks for saying this. I was feeling sorry for the French too. They did once have a great culture.

11/8/05, 3:20 PM  
Blogger Always On Watch said...

I am a political conservative, but I harbor no ill will toward France. I feel no satisfaction in casting blame. Rather, I am saddened that Western civilization is under attack.

Can France wake up in time?

11/8/05, 8:25 PM  
Blogger (((Thought Criminal))) said...

Despite France being the closest to Western Civilization you can get without actually crossing into it, I do feel a twinge of sorrow for the bastards. They might have potentially become a relevant member of the international community someday, if not for this.

11/8/05, 10:52 PM  
Blogger beakerkin said...

Jason

We may have our own flash point in Union Square or Journal Square. My friends in Jersey are saying it is tense.

11/8/05, 10:57 PM  
Blogger Always On Watch said...

Flashpoint in Union Square or in Journal Square ? Dear God!

I had been worried about Detroit, although today I read something about LA.

Is an outbreak of violence here inevitable?

11/8/05, 11:13 PM  
Blogger Pastorius said...

If we had an outbreak in LA, I don't think it would be from Arab Muslims. They are wealthy, and even power brokers out here. I'm not too worried. And, I don't know anything about the Detroit area, except that they have a publicly blasted call to prayer in Dearborn.

I don't think we have to worry about riots in the U.S. Now, WMD's? Yeah, that's another thing altogether.

Don't forget, after Israel, we, here in America, harbor the most Jews. And the Jews are the first enemy of the Islamofascists.

11/9/05, 12:02 AM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

At first glance there seems to be a pattern. Those conservatives that blame France are the only that can’t believe something that calls itself a religion—Islam—can be bad. Has anyone else notice that? It appears that once they let Islam off the hook they need to look for another explanation. The left does this also. That’s why I wrote my root causes piece. Today, Front Page Magazine has a similar piece to dismiss the bogus root causes.

One the other hand, conservatives (and some others) who've been saying all along that Islam plays a central role are not surprised. And the evidence, as it comes in, is clear. I also think it is turning some heads even if they have to read between the lines at present.

11/9/05, 6:43 AM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

Amro, you obviously read little of what I wrote. Might I suggest a, b, and c. Come back after you actually consider my ideas.

11/9/05, 7:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY JASON,

ALL THE RESPONSES TO UR PATHETIC FALSE CLAIMS ARE ON WWW.ANSWERING-ISLAM.COM. I'VE BEEN DEALING W/ PEOPLE LIKE YOU SINCE 9/11, YOUR ARGUMENTS HAVE BEEN PUT BEFORE ME AND I'M NOT GOING TO RESPOND OVER AND OVER AGAIN IF THEY ARE ALL POSTED ON MY SITE.

11/9/05, 8:08 PM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

You preach that Muhammad is the true prophet. I'm not religious so why would I want to consider your religion?

Mohammad was a violent man who slaughtered, plundered, conquered and ruled. He's a horrible example.

11/9/05, 8:13 PM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

Amro, I am deleting your comments since you do not deal with anything that I write. You have your own website to rant. Do it there.

11/9/05, 9:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW, WHAT A HYPOCRITE, CRITICIZING ISLAM FOR VIOLATING FREEDOM OF SPEECH(ARREST OF AFGHANI JOURNALIST) BUT DELETING MY POSTS. YOU JUST CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH CAN YOU. BUT AS I TOLD CRACK POT ALI SINA, BEFORE YOU, THAT ONLY IN YOUR WILDEST FANTASIES WILL YOU EVER GET RID OF ISLAM. IN FACT ISLAM IS RISING IN THE WEST, TO YOUR UTTER AND PATHETIC DISMAY (THERE HAVE BEEN 34,000 NEW CONVERTS SINCE 9/11 INCLUDING ME)

11/9/05, 9:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"One Day(Judgement Day) those who disbelieve will wish that they were Muslims, so let them eat and enjoy themselves and be diverted by their false hope, but one day they will know."(Quran 15:2-3)

It is your right to speak out against Islam if you want to (as long as you don't incite violence towards innocent muslims) but
never think you will win even if the whole world is on your side, because the the truth (Islam) will always prevail and your fate will like those of the past generations. The likes of the people of Noah, Pharoah, Abu Jahl and Abdullah Ibn Ubay, far greater in strength they were than you but their strength didn't avail them for God is severe in punishment and swift into taking account. So they were disgraced in this life but the disgrace in the hereafter is far greater if you only knew.

visit www.answering-islam.com so that you might be enlightened, just give it try.

11/9/05, 9:21 PM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

Sixty years ago there were far more people switching to Communism--over a billion in a 10 year period. Yet Communism is dying out today as Islam will be on its death bed 50 years from today. You, Amro, will be in the ash bin of history like Nazism and Communism are today.

11/9/05, 10:50 PM  
Blogger beakerkin said...

The bottom line is paternalism practiced in Europe or the US does not work. Poverty is not the cause because I can readily point out poverty in Vt, barrios and in Chinatown. Turning people into perpetual victims and handing them a check and a pat on the head is racist and dehumanizing

11/10/05, 2:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JASON,

Your such a fool, Nazism and Communism are political and economic idealogies. They originated in the 20th century and died in the same century. Islam is a religion and a way of life it originated from time of Abraham (or if you don't want believe me, it originated in the 6th century)and its been strong for 1400 years and still is going. It survived its first 23 years(years of prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him)) through intense persecution(in fact the first martyr in Islam was not in the battlefeild but was a woman who was speared in her private parts by ABU JAHL for not abandoning islam) and through the initial battles were Muslims were outnumber 3 to 1. It survived the crusades and it survived colonialism. So trust me Islam will outlive you. Just look at its early history and the conflicts it faced when muslims were nothing but a few dozen followers. So you will see.

Furthermore, learn about Abu Jahl, Abu Lahab, Abdullah Ibn Ubay, Huyah ibn Akhtab all who violently plotted against Islam and said ISLAM WILL SURELY DISAPPEAR IN THEIR LIFETIME and see what happened to them. Indeed, it is you Jason who will be in the trash bin of history.

11/10/05, 4:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Sixty years ago there were far more people switching to Communism--over a billion in a 10 year period. Yet Communism is dying out today as Islam will be on its death bed 50 years from today. You, Amro, will be in the ash bin of history like Nazism and Communism are today"

GOD doesn't care about quantity, rather He cares more about quality, so even if the whole world except for one person should abandon Islam, GOD is free of need.

[Qur'an 14.8] And Moses said: "If ye show ingratitude, ye and all on earth together, then Allah is free of all wants, worthy of all praise. "

You see Jason you think in terms of this worldy life, so what, if everybody should abandon Islam as long as I don't that's all that matters for it's being saved from the disgrace on Judgement Day(a day 50,000 years long) and from eternity in hell, as you and every arrogant and insolent liar will see, that matters.

11/10/05, 4:56 AM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

Amro, we all know that Islam is first and foremost a political ideology. It was founded by a man who plundered caravans, slaughtered, terrorized critics, conquered Arabia, ruled and ethnically cleansed Medina. In its first century it conquered most of the known world. Ruling and oppressing others is a sign, to a Muslim, that Islam is in God's favor.

Islam was originally a state religion - not a personal religion. Islam is as much an ideology as Marxism is. You don't have to lie about Islam anymore--the truth is out.

11/10/05, 6:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What Islam has going for it as an ideology, is that unlike Nazism and Communism, it promises horrible suffering in the afterlife for the disbelievers. Muhammad was quite a clever politician in that regard. Notice that both Muslim commenters bring up that threat about eternal suffering. Islam hasn't persisted because it has truth on its side (anyone who thinks that God picked a self-serving man of such manifest evil as Muhammad as his final messenger is obviously a fool) - but because it induces FEAR. Fear has nothing to do with truth. And since Muslims DO NOT have truth on their side, all they can do is try to induce FEAR, by threatening people with violence in this life, and if they can't get away with that, then they invoke the threat of violence in the next.

Caroline

11/10/05, 10:04 AM  
Blogger (((Thought Criminal))) said...

A 50,000 year long day would suck, except for the 521 year long smoke breaks.

11/10/05, 6:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for stopping by today, Jason. Semper Fidelis, my friend.

11/10/05, 9:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blah, blah,blah, there you go again Jason. Honestly man for more than 1000 years Christion missionaries have demonizing Islam and Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and for the last 300 years the Orientalist have joined the fray. All of them thought that in their lifetime they were going to get rid of Islam but it was to no avail. So if you really are that stupid to think that you will rid yourself of a religion 1.4 billion strong, 1/5 of the world population, and having a strong presence in every western country, then all power to you. Go ahead try your best, no try harder than that. God will only increase you in destruction until the day you meet Him. AS for me, I'm creating a presence at UCLA, where Muslim Student Association has more group members than any other group. Where we serve the community, through homeless feedings, and opening a free medical clinic, and tutoring poor high school kids and juvenile prisoners in math and science so they can have another chance in life.
(WONDER WHY YOU NEVER SEE THAT IN THE NEWS, ALL THE GOOD THINGS MUSLIMS DO)

Again, Islam is a way of life not an ideology.

As for you Caroline, I have never heard anything more silly than your argument. Furthermore, you don't think that Christian preachers talk about Hell in their sermons to instill fear in their followers.

You see Caroline, because people like don't believe in the afterlife, you will never understand what it means and why we fear hell. Furthermore, are religion is not all fear but mercy from a loving God, WHO FOR EVERY GOOD DEED AWARDS 10 TIMES THE REWARD BUT FOR EVERY BAD DEED ONLY PUNISHES YOU WITH THE EQUIVALENT.

Furthermore, Prophet Muhammed contrary to your asinine comments about him instilling fear in his followers, is considered the most influential man who ever lived by non-Muslim historian Michael Hart:
http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html#Muhammad I'm sure he did that all by fear when he never directly killed a person in his life.

11/10/05, 9:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SEE THE IMPACT OF ISLAM ON SCIENCE:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

FURTHERMORE, SEE HOW CHRISTIANITY LED TO THE RISE OF NAZIS AND TYRANNY:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/passive.htm

11/10/05, 9:42 PM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

Abdullah, you are tiring. You deal with little of what I write. Muhammad was a warrior and Islam is a political ideology, first and foremost. You need to read more than the Islamic propaganda. Yes, most Muslims don’t fully practice Islam and that’s good. But today there is an Islamic Revival – Muslims are beginning to take seriously their duty to wage jihad on the Infidel. You, sir, are the enemy. America is waking up. You can stop lying now, the truth is out.

11/10/05, 10:04 PM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

Great points, Caroline, and way to subtle for Amro ... but I enjoyed them.

11/10/05, 10:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SUICIDE BOMBING PROMOTED IN THE BIBLE:

The story of the Mighty Samson:

"Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible. Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:

"Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"

Note: I called him "Mighty Samson" because he was extremely powerful. He was far much more stronger than all men in his time.

As we clearly see from the Bible, Samson gave his life for his people by killing as much from the enemy as possible.

Samson prayed to GOD to give him back his power (Samson lost his power after the seven braids of his hair were shaven by Delilah and her people while he was sleeping, Judges 16:1-20), and GOD Almighty granted him that revoked power back. Samson then was able to bring the temple down upon him and his enemies.

Question was raised to me: I was asked to show a proof that GOD Almighty approved of Samson's suicide that killed himself and his enemies. Well, GOD Almighty apparently knew what Samson was up to and thus He decided to grant him his revoked power back to enable him to kill himself and his enemies. So therefore, GOD Almighty did approve of Samson's action. Otherwise, why would GOD give back Samson his power after revoking it from him? And didn't He know about Samson's plan and intentions of suicide?

Another Question raised to me: I was asked to show from the Bible where did GOD Almighty indeed grant Samson his power back so he can commit suicide in the intention of taking his enemies with him. Well, let us read Judges 16:19-22:

"Having put him to sleep on her lap, she called a man to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him. And his strength left him. Then she called, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you!" He awoke from his sleep and thought, "I'll go out as before and shake myself free." But he did not know that the LORD had left him. Then the Philistines seized him, gouged out his eyes and took him down to Gaza. Binding him with bronze shackles, they set him to grinding in the prison. But the hair on his head began to grow again after it had been shaved. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:19-22)"

Now let us read Judges 16:28:

"Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:28)"

Here we see that GOD Almighty apparently gave Samson the chance to get his power back through growing his hair back. GOD Almighty wanted for Samson to take his own life and the life of his enemies with him. He willed for him to die this way. He could've simply willed for Samson to die on the spot after his enemies gouged his eyes for him. But no, instead, GOD Almighty decided for Samson to die while enabling him to take as many pagan Philistines with him as possible.

GOD in the Bible actually makes the point very clear: "Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:30)"

My challenge to all Jews and Christians: Show me in the Bible where GOD Almighty condemned the actions of Samson.

So to all of those hypocrites from Jewish and Christian Rabies and Ministers who call the Palestinian Suicide Martyrs as "Homicide Bombers", how are the Palestinians today different from what Samson did before?

I don't blame the regular Jews and Christians because they don't know much about their Bible. But I do have a great deal of problem with the hypocrites and the Pedophiles of the Churches who know everything about their porn-full bible, the book of women's breasts and vaginas taste like wine, and brothers and sisters sleeping with each others (see the proofs and quotes for yourself from the porn-full bible), because they clearly have double standards. They are clearly contradicting themselves and their porn-full bible.

SO CAROLINE, HOW COME THERE IS NOT ONE VERSE IN QURAN PROMOTING SUICIDE TO KILL AS MANY OF YOUR ENEMIES AS POSSIBLE, BUT HERE WE HAVE A CLEAR EXAMPLE IN THE BIBLE AND EVEN SAYING THAT SAMSON GOES TO HEAVEN AFTER HIS SLAUGTER. HOW CAN YOU ANSWER THIS?

11/10/05, 11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ISLAM ALSO SAYS THOSE WHO KILL WILL GO TO HELL:

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 49:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet said, "Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of traveling)."

Also from the Sunnah, specifically in a report from Al-Khatib, we find that the Messenger of Allah (saas) also said:

"Whoever hurts a non-Muslim person under protection, I am his adversary, and I shall be an adversary to him on the Day of Resurrection."

One historical example of Muslims living up to the standard of Islam can be found from the time of the Spanish Inquisition. During that disaster sprung by misguided Catholics, some Spanish Jews fled to Muslim Turkey and to this day, there is a community of Spanish-speaking Jews in Turkey. Another example may be found during one of the Crusader invasions from Western Europe. Some of the the Catholic Western European knights were so likely to rape, murder, and pillage the Jews and Orthodox Christians, that when the Muslims won, they were treated as a liberating force by those non-Muslims.

11/10/05, 11:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CAROLINE SAID:
"I bring it up because if this FEAR is in fact, a huge part of what drives the Muslim psychology (and if one doubts this, try reading pages of the Muslim comments at faithfreedom.org)"

"And since Muslims DO NOT have truth on their side, all they can do is try to induce FEAR, by threatening people with violence in this life, and if they can't get away with that, then they invoke the threat of violence in the next. "

TO CAROLINE:

"We have not sent down the Qur'an to thee to be (an occasion) for thy distress, " (Quran 20:2)

"We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures. " (Quran 21:107)

You see Caroline, we Muslims don't believe in Islam just because we fear Hell, but because we want gain the pleasure of God for eternity in Paradise and because it is our duty as human beings to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil. The Quran was not sent as something to scare us from doing anything. Furthermore, Islam, unlike most religions, is against monasticism, so it doesn't ask you to sacrifice your life to be confined in solitude in fear of God, making sure you do not even seek lawful pleasure (like marraige).

Morever, the 2ND MOST COMMON WORD IS THE QURAN BEHIND ALLAH IS MERCY IN FACT THIS IS EVEN ONE OF GOD'S NAMES. SO THIS IDEA THAT MUSLIMS ARE CROUCHING IN THE FETAL POSITION IN FEAR IS LAUGHABLE AT BEST.

I do not avoid living a sinful because I'm just afraid of God, but because I look at God as a father figure, who I do not want to disappoint and instead want Him to be pleased with me.

CAROLINE SAID:
"Read what you wrote about the good deeds you do. You do them as a MUSLIM - not as a human being. Therefore, you do them for gain - for YOUR ego as a Muslim (or to gain MUSLIM converts). You won't understand that point. It's a little too subtle for your level of morality. "

NOPE, me and probably Amro would be good muslims even if there was no afterlife because it is a way of life that enjoins upon you a healthy lifestyle: moderation in eating, spending, avoiding usury, avoiding pre-marital sex, avoiding intoxicants, charity, daily abulution, education etc. Religion was created to create order in people's lives. It doesn't mean that secular societies can not be orderly and justful societies, but more than likely: Godless societies (such as Soviet Union and China) don't believe in a concept of justice and thus the oppressor who has no one to oppose him can get away with anything for he has nothing to fear. The idea that its not a crime as long as you get away with it becomes prevalent. But the idea that one day you will be held accountable for everything you did whether you did it in secret or publically (as long as he or she doesn't repent) keeps one in check.

11/11/05, 12:21 AM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

Amro, your post starting with “SUICIDE BOMBING …” talks about the Old Testament (OT). For Christianity, the New Testament (NT) supersedes the OT. For Islam, it is in essence, the opposite (I talk about this here.) Islam is an OT type religion. I’m not religious but I see the option, for Christians, to allow the NT to dominate. Islam is the opposite, the harsh Medinan period supersedes the moderate early Meccan period. There is even a formal doctrine of abrogation.

Your next post talks about “protection” of Christian and Jews – who if they obey Muslims won’t be killed like pagans and polytheists. Note, they don’t have rights as human beings but are grudgingly spared death (unlike pagans) if they accept servitude. This is alien to the American notion of universal rights. On this blog we all know about dhimmis.

Historical examples are useless in and of themselves since they don’t explain if the people acted because of the religion or despite the religion. The question for me, a non-religious person, is not who failed in history but who succeeded. The acceptance of individual rights is an ideal, aspiration, and to a large extent an achievement in English speaking countries – where people find that it is in harmony with their Christianity. You point to the fact that nominal adherents of all faiths had problems; but I point out that Christians and Jews have been able to develop and live in free societies for centuries in the English speaking lands (USA, UK, Canada, Australia, etc.)

Thus, Amro, Mohammad's example as a political ruler in Medina is one that is incompatible with a liberal (free) society – all atheists must be killed, for example, and he ethnically cleansed Medina of Jews. Jesus, on the other hand, gives no such example. After many centuries, some Christians have been able to sustain a free society that even respects the rights of atheists and treats or aspires to treat all individuals with respect – something a Muslim can do only if he ignores the example of Mohammad’s rule.

11/11/05, 6:57 AM  
Blogger beakerkin said...

To the sons of Allah

Beamish Ahkbar

Every other religion on the planet is responsible for its strife with Islam. Want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge ? Islam equal totalitarian land theft and is less responsible then ypur average mafioso

11/11/05, 8:26 AM  
Blogger beakerkin said...

Jason

I am jealous the Jihadist clowns gave you an award. No doubt a blog that advertises a book compared by the NYT to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a reliable source.

There is o prophet other then Mr Beamish . Read learn and improve your worthless souls.

You will be protected Dummies in Beamishism. Just pay us 130% of your earnings as a lower life form and we will take ten percent of your children annualy to build the Army of Beamish.

Oh I forgot been there done that.

Beamish Ahkbar

11/11/05, 7:36 PM  
Blogger Baron Bodissey said...

We are not at war with Islam. But we are at war with every vicious terrorist thug who chooses to target the infidel. It's that simple.

The rest is entertainment. Sure, we can make fun of France, like we always do. It's shooting fish in a barrel, and it's hard to resist. But, like many of the other commenters here, I think this may not be quite the right time.

France is handling its crisis very foolishly, ineffectively, and short-sightedly. But the enemy is the issue, not the French response. The enemy continues to plan, probe, and attack. We're next.

I grieve for the imminent demise of a once-great nation.

11/11/05, 10:57 PM  
Blogger Always On Watch said...

I read yesterday that France would not be celebrating Armistice Day. Too offensive?

Quite a discussion here. Sorry to have missed out on tossing in my two cents.

PS: I'm still smiling over Beamish's smoke-breaks comment.

11/12/05, 7:05 AM  
Blogger American Crusader said...

Wow...what a great discussion..obviously the result of a provocative post. While I may feel sorry for France, France has brought this upon itself. It's obstructionist politics have left it isolated from their traditional allies. You are correct that France needs to win this war but before it can do that it must decide which course to follow. It can continue its attempt to appease Islamic extremist or France can wake up and realize it must fight to retain its identity.

11/12/05, 11:34 AM  
Blogger American Crusader said...

There was one other thing I wanted to mention. I noticed throughout many arguments people were comparing what the Bible says and what the Koran says but I didn't see one key element mentioned. The Koran is the exact word of God if you are a Muslim. Every verse comes directly from Allah, there is nothing left to interpretation. The Bible..and I'm including both Old and New testament is considered to be inspired by God and written by man. That's a big difference....when Allah says to slay the infidels wherever you find them..there is no need for interpretation...this is God's word.

11/12/05, 1:41 PM  
Blogger (((Thought Criminal))) said...

Samson as suicide bomber?

Nevermind that silly argument.

How could anyone walk away from reading the story of Samson and not believe the Gaza Strip is Jewish land?

11/12/05, 2:51 PM  
Blogger (((Thought Criminal))) said...

Speaking of Islam's alleged goodness towards Jews and Christians, whatever happened to the churches of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea?

These are the Seven Churches of Asia mention in Revelation, the 1st Century Christian congregations in what is now Turkey, decimated by the Seleucids.

Don't tell us how good Turkish Muslims were. They're sitting on top of OUR holy sites, just as Muslims have stolen holy sites from Jews, Hindus, and the Vedic polytheists of Mecca.

Islam is a religion of thieves.

11/12/05, 3:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CAROLINE SAID:
My dear Abdullah, The Koran was not SENT by anyone, let alone God. It was invented by Muhammad for his own self-serving purposes. Haven't you noticed how his "revelations" were so conveniently timed to justify what was always in his own self-interest? This is the whole point of examining the so-called prophet's basic character - that of a theif, assassin, murderer, pedophile, rapist, slave-taker. He also endorsed lying.

I GUESS GHANDI WOULD DISAGREE:

when asked about prophet Muhammed(pbuh) he said the following you can look it up in the source I provided:
"I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those day in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his interpidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle."

"When I closed the second volume of the Prophet's biography(the medina period) I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life."

Young India, quoted in "The Light, Lahore, for 16th September, 1924. Mahatma Ghandi

VISIT
http://www.harunyahya.com/m_audio.php
CLICK ON THE AUDIO FILE
"HOW DO THE UNWISE VIEW THE KORAN"

look through out the website www.harunyahya.com and if you are sincere and not arrogant you will understand why I believe Islam is the true religion of God otherwise I guess you are just spiritually dead.

11/15/05, 1:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

W/ ALL DUE RESPECT CAROLINE,

I should of known from the beginning that it is pointless for me to argue w/ you because you are arrogant, insincere and not interested in the truth. To you if the anti-muslims are wrong, you do want to be right. It's like trying to convince Hitler that the Jewish people aren't all that bad. It just won't work with you. So believe what you want to believe it is your right but IF U EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE SIMPLICITY and the TRUTH OF ISLAM you know where to reach me. www.answering-islam.com (JUST VISIT IT ONCE)

11/17/05, 7:53 AM  
Blogger Jason Pappas said...

C’mon Abdullah, Caroline was very patient answering your posts. Calling her arrogant, like a child saying “no, you are,” isn’t a way to deal with the substance of her post. It’s hardly fair to someone who shows such consideration.

I would have hoped that from the details of our responses it is apparent that we’re well-read in regard to Islam. This is not like those internet venue where everyone tosses one-liners in ignorance. I would have hoped you’d be more interesting in why we vehemently reject Islam instead of just spamming us with “how do you explain this” posts.

By the way, the post on Post-modernism (in the other thread) is interesting but we can’t discuss this if you are going to throw everything in “including the kitchen sink” as the saying goes.

11/17/05, 8:55 AM  
Blogger beakerkin said...

Caroline

I respect your efforts and Jasons but there is no logic to the Jihadist bufoons who post here. I will not bandy scriptures and I have read the Koran .

The Jihadists would have everyone believe everyone else is at fault Jews, Every Christian denomination, Sikhs, Hindus , Animists and Budhists all have problems with the land thieving homicidal sons of Allah. Jews, Christians and Hindus lived peacably in India until guess who shows up.

History speaks for itself and Islamo Colonialism is fact.

11/17/05, 7:10 PM  
Blogger (((Thought Criminal))) said...

Ghandi is the world's most famous dhimmi. It took an Indian patriot upset with Ghandhi's surrender of the Hindu holy ground now known as Pakistan and his attempts to GIVE India's national treasury to them to muster up the nerve to open some daylight into his internal organs. The only thing tragic about that assassination is that it wasn't caught on film for future enjoyment with a bowl of popcorn (Ben Kingsley's performance in the pseudo-historical "Ghandhi" bio-movie just doesn't do it for me).

There is evidence to suggest that Ghandhi in fact practiced Islam when he lived in South Africa.

11/17/05, 8:58 PM  
Blogger (((Thought Criminal))) said...

Bingo, Caroline.

Here's an oldie but goodie on the real Ghandhi.

Anyone who praises Ghandhi's "pacifism" should be shot for being historically illiterate.

11/17/05, 10:35 PM  
Blogger beakerkin said...

Caroline

Beamish is correct as usual.

Anyone that thinks Islam is about peace is in need of medication . My Maronite, Assyrian, Coptic, Hindu, Bhudist , Bhai , Sikh , Assorted North African and Iran Jews and Chinese friends from Indonesia tell the same exact story. Islam is about theft and is literaly Communism with a god. VS Naipul has written two wonderful books on the subject.

Sons of Allah there is no prophet other then Mr Beamish . Give us 130% of your annual earnings for the pleasure of breathing our air.

Beamish Ahkbar!!!!!!

11/18/05, 1:29 AM  
Blogger (((Thought Criminal))) said...

You have to wonder why the Nehru-ite Islamist leaders in India changed their names to Ghandhi.

"Jews should have offered their necks to the Nazis willingly so their deaths would have meant something" - Mohandas K. Ghandhi

Meant something to who? Fuck Ghandhi.

11/18/05, 11:11 AM  

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